AppliedVisual
Oct 14, 02:55 AM
I am so glad you tried and succeeded in getting that discount. That's great. Hope you didn't suffer too much brain damage ripping on that sales rep. Wish I could have heard that. lol. :p
Actually, I just played it pretty cool. I just told him that I overlooked the coupon and asked if they could apply it, since it would save me about $100. He started with the "I'm sorry, sir. But we can't apply coupons to prior purchases..." So I just went into the "OK, no problem then, I would like to cancel my current order and refuse shipment on it" Which they allow in their return policy. "...And I would like to place a new order for the 30" using this coupon." He kinda paused and made some sort of groaning noise and instinctually started to tell me I couldn't do that. But then he put me on hold for about two minutes, came back and agreed to apply the coupon. I think I realized that he couldn't stop me from doing the cancel and re-order routine and it was a waste of time for both of us and didn't help them out any. He probably needed a manager approval to apply the coupon or something.
Want to have a contest to see who can have their 8-Core Mac Pro delivered first? I will have to drive to Santa Clara 35 miles to buy an Apple gift card so I can complete my online purchase so you might be able to beat me.
Like I posted in the other thread, sure. :) I don't know how it will play out on this end either. I'm ready to buy today, but I'm also starting a fairly large project in about 2 weeks or so. Depending on that and budget restrictions I may buy once the 8-core systems arrive or I may wait. ...Not that I want to wait.
Please share with us what config you will buy and why. I plan on buying only the 1GB model and buying my RAM from Omni Optival - only 2 more GB. So far it looks like my multi-threaded apps do not use much ram at all while using up to 4 cores EACH. So they're RAM stingy and Core HOGS. I am not getting this for Photoshop but for compressing video in 2 to 4 simultaneous applications.
My 3D rendering is all over the place in terms of RAM requirements. However it tends to top out at about 2 to 4 GB for the most demanding scenes. Primarily I use Lightwave3D and a companion render plug-in called FPrime to do most of my rendering. FPrime is still limited to dual-threads or two cores under practicality and also is still a 32bit app. But on my quad-cores I run three instances of it at once and it seems to work out well. Two instances of it doesn't use all my RAM and seems to leave a CPU or two idle about 30% of the time. Hmmmm... As for Lightwave, it's also still a 32bit app with 32bit render node software that is very poorly multithreaded with most plug-ins for the renderer being single-threaded. So I tend to set up dedicated render nodes for each CPU core and dedicate 1GB to each. Works fairly well... I haven't found a real solid way to actually set CPU affinity for individual applications in OSX or at least not automatically when loading up the apps. I wrote a small utility on the PC that works in every version of Windows from NT4 up to Vista that assigns any combination of affinity to an app when launching it. I let people download it for free starting a couple years ago... Dumb move, it's been downloaded over 100,000 times. Should've charged $1.00 per download seeing how i write the thing in 10 minutes and it has a bug in the command line parser that I've never fixed.
Anyway, to answer the question, I'm planning to buy the 2.66GHz model - possibly the 2.33GHz depending on the price difference. If it looks like what you have figured, then I think the 2.66GHz will be worth it for me. I will buy the base RAM configuration and replace it with aftermarket RAM from whoever looks to have the best price/quality on their modules when the time comes. I'll get the x1900xt video card unless they offer something better in about the same price range. Bluetooth module, fiber channel card and I will upgrade the included HDD to the 500GB model. I'll probably pick up a second 500GB on my own and set the two up in a RAID-0 stripe to install the system on. It will connect to my Dell 30" (soon to be dual 30" hahaha) displays via the Gefen switchers. That way I can still switch between my Quad and my other PC and my MBP if I want to plug it in.
Oh, I'm planning on putting the included RAM on ebay since it will run at slower speed most likely. The 512MB FB-DIMMs don't run at the full bandwidth due to how the buffering works only 1GB and 2GB modules do. I plan to install 8GB RAM via 4x2GB modules.
Actually, I just played it pretty cool. I just told him that I overlooked the coupon and asked if they could apply it, since it would save me about $100. He started with the "I'm sorry, sir. But we can't apply coupons to prior purchases..." So I just went into the "OK, no problem then, I would like to cancel my current order and refuse shipment on it" Which they allow in their return policy. "...And I would like to place a new order for the 30" using this coupon." He kinda paused and made some sort of groaning noise and instinctually started to tell me I couldn't do that. But then he put me on hold for about two minutes, came back and agreed to apply the coupon. I think I realized that he couldn't stop me from doing the cancel and re-order routine and it was a waste of time for both of us and didn't help them out any. He probably needed a manager approval to apply the coupon or something.
Want to have a contest to see who can have their 8-Core Mac Pro delivered first? I will have to drive to Santa Clara 35 miles to buy an Apple gift card so I can complete my online purchase so you might be able to beat me.
Like I posted in the other thread, sure. :) I don't know how it will play out on this end either. I'm ready to buy today, but I'm also starting a fairly large project in about 2 weeks or so. Depending on that and budget restrictions I may buy once the 8-core systems arrive or I may wait. ...Not that I want to wait.
Please share with us what config you will buy and why. I plan on buying only the 1GB model and buying my RAM from Omni Optival - only 2 more GB. So far it looks like my multi-threaded apps do not use much ram at all while using up to 4 cores EACH. So they're RAM stingy and Core HOGS. I am not getting this for Photoshop but for compressing video in 2 to 4 simultaneous applications.
My 3D rendering is all over the place in terms of RAM requirements. However it tends to top out at about 2 to 4 GB for the most demanding scenes. Primarily I use Lightwave3D and a companion render plug-in called FPrime to do most of my rendering. FPrime is still limited to dual-threads or two cores under practicality and also is still a 32bit app. But on my quad-cores I run three instances of it at once and it seems to work out well. Two instances of it doesn't use all my RAM and seems to leave a CPU or two idle about 30% of the time. Hmmmm... As for Lightwave, it's also still a 32bit app with 32bit render node software that is very poorly multithreaded with most plug-ins for the renderer being single-threaded. So I tend to set up dedicated render nodes for each CPU core and dedicate 1GB to each. Works fairly well... I haven't found a real solid way to actually set CPU affinity for individual applications in OSX or at least not automatically when loading up the apps. I wrote a small utility on the PC that works in every version of Windows from NT4 up to Vista that assigns any combination of affinity to an app when launching it. I let people download it for free starting a couple years ago... Dumb move, it's been downloaded over 100,000 times. Should've charged $1.00 per download seeing how i write the thing in 10 minutes and it has a bug in the command line parser that I've never fixed.
Anyway, to answer the question, I'm planning to buy the 2.66GHz model - possibly the 2.33GHz depending on the price difference. If it looks like what you have figured, then I think the 2.66GHz will be worth it for me. I will buy the base RAM configuration and replace it with aftermarket RAM from whoever looks to have the best price/quality on their modules when the time comes. I'll get the x1900xt video card unless they offer something better in about the same price range. Bluetooth module, fiber channel card and I will upgrade the included HDD to the 500GB model. I'll probably pick up a second 500GB on my own and set the two up in a RAID-0 stripe to install the system on. It will connect to my Dell 30" (soon to be dual 30" hahaha) displays via the Gefen switchers. That way I can still switch between my Quad and my other PC and my MBP if I want to plug it in.
Oh, I'm planning on putting the included RAM on ebay since it will run at slower speed most likely. The 512MB FB-DIMMs don't run at the full bandwidth due to how the buffering works only 1GB and 2GB modules do. I plan to install 8GB RAM via 4x2GB modules.
rahrens
Sep 21, 08:33 AM
the iTV doesn't do HD either. Quoting Bob iger, Disney CEO:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2066
Actually, Steve noted that the iTV WILL do HD. It does have an HDMI port out, doesn't it? The issue now is that the ITS doesn't have that content yet. But if YOU have something you've managed to record on your Mac or PC that IS HD, then, by all means, buy the iTV (or whatever they'll call it) and watch your stuff...
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2066
Actually, Steve noted that the iTV WILL do HD. It does have an HDMI port out, doesn't it? The issue now is that the ITS doesn't have that content yet. But if YOU have something you've managed to record on your Mac or PC that IS HD, then, by all means, buy the iTV (or whatever they'll call it) and watch your stuff...
supmango
Mar 18, 10:33 AM
By the way the supposition as to how they are detecting this is likely way off base....People who think it is not detectable just don't understand how it works/what it is doing at the device level.
Please elaborate.
Please elaborate.
nixd2001
Oct 12, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
Wow I missed a lot by spending all of Friday away from this board. I am way behind in posts here, and I'm sure I'll miss a lot of things worth comment. But anyway, the code fragment:
Is a very poor benchmark. Compilers may be able to really dig into that and make the resulting executable perform the calculate radically different. In fact, I can tell you the answer outright: x1=20000, x2=20000, x3 = 400000000. It took me 2 seconds or so. Does this mean that I am a better computer than a G4 and a P4? No, it means I realized that the loop can be reduced to simple data assignments. I have a better compiler, thats it.
I'll see about adding more thoughts later.
there is a lot a compiler could do to this - by us all (well, those who have the interest in the assembler output of a compiler at least) having a look at what the respective compilers have done, we can form more of an informed opinion of what works out to the benefit of the P4 for this case. This might all be a bit geeky, but I am intersted at least.
Wow I missed a lot by spending all of Friday away from this board. I am way behind in posts here, and I'm sure I'll miss a lot of things worth comment. But anyway, the code fragment:
Is a very poor benchmark. Compilers may be able to really dig into that and make the resulting executable perform the calculate radically different. In fact, I can tell you the answer outright: x1=20000, x2=20000, x3 = 400000000. It took me 2 seconds or so. Does this mean that I am a better computer than a G4 and a P4? No, it means I realized that the loop can be reduced to simple data assignments. I have a better compiler, thats it.
I'll see about adding more thoughts later.
there is a lot a compiler could do to this - by us all (well, those who have the interest in the assembler output of a compiler at least) having a look at what the respective compilers have done, we can form more of an informed opinion of what works out to the benefit of the P4 for this case. This might all be a bit geeky, but I am intersted at least.
skunk
Apr 24, 05:05 AM
You all know that hockey has become important to me in the last few months since I started playing-it has changed me in ways I can't explain. It's made me a new person. It is that one thing I thought I could never do, and now at 44, I am playing with guys who are 21 years old and I freak them out. "Dude, no way, you are pretty damn good." I love that. :) I want to help other people do the same.Come on, Lee, you just enjoy spending your time surrounded by young, fit redheads guys. :)
eXan
Sep 26, 01:55 AM
Thanks. That's not particularly encouraging... I'm not in the habit of 'doing stuff in the background' when I'm working, unless it's disk-burning. :(
And exporting videos to iPod format :D
And exporting videos to iPod format :D
munkery
May 2, 01:38 PM
That's what I'd like to know. I can't even open HTML pages downloaded from my own website without OS X warning me before opening it, and yet this story makes it sound as if the file contained in the zip is somehow launching on its own without any user notification. Sounds like BS to me. What is the source for this?
It decompressed the zip file and executes code to launch an installer. This is considered a safe action because the user still has to continue to run the installer.
Installation of MacDefender via the installer requires password authentication by the user.
It decompressed the zip file and executes code to launch an installer. This is considered a safe action because the user still has to continue to run the installer.
Installation of MacDefender via the installer requires password authentication by the user.
AndroidfoLife
Apr 21, 04:27 PM
Well, there are a few problems with your theories. First of all, there are vulnerabilities in Windows that merely visiting a web page clicked on from a Google search gets your machine infected. Or, you could visit a legitimate website that has mistakenly sold ad space to people hosting malware (this has occurred with both Foxnews.com and NYTimes.com), or you can download an app that you think is legitimate, but has spyware (like PrimoPDF).
I love seeing this "As long as you know what you're doing, and you're not an idiot, you're fine" attitude.
Ok those are fake websites and they do not infect your computer just by clicking into them you have to click on the download. My friend in the dorms did last year and i fixed her computer in twenty minutes. You don't realize that people have to click on that stuff. I never click on anything like that. I torrent all day and i have yet to get a virus or spyware on my PC. (likely because of Kypresky.)
What phone do you have? My iPhone battery lasts 3 or 4 days if I don't do anything , who cares.
Real Netflix App
Any Game made by Epic
About 2/3s of EAs games. (and the ones there only run on like 2 phones).
This is just the beginning.. I could add 100 more if you like. Your free tethering is no different then getting free tethering on an iPhone. It is not carrier supported (At least on AT&T) and they will always be working to try and block it.
On android I enjoy every game made on NES, SNES, gameboy, Gameboy advance, Saturn, Genesis, and for higher end phones N64, DS, Playstation, with PS2 comming. Thats millions of games I have access too. Don't tout its illegal. Illegal or not its still a benefit of android.
Sorry I don't watch movies on my 3.5 inch screen not worth it. Can't wait to get the transformer and watch it on the real web browser though.
I love seeing this "As long as you know what you're doing, and you're not an idiot, you're fine" attitude.
Ok those are fake websites and they do not infect your computer just by clicking into them you have to click on the download. My friend in the dorms did last year and i fixed her computer in twenty minutes. You don't realize that people have to click on that stuff. I never click on anything like that. I torrent all day and i have yet to get a virus or spyware on my PC. (likely because of Kypresky.)
What phone do you have? My iPhone battery lasts 3 or 4 days if I don't do anything , who cares.
Real Netflix App
Any Game made by Epic
About 2/3s of EAs games. (and the ones there only run on like 2 phones).
This is just the beginning.. I could add 100 more if you like. Your free tethering is no different then getting free tethering on an iPhone. It is not carrier supported (At least on AT&T) and they will always be working to try and block it.
On android I enjoy every game made on NES, SNES, gameboy, Gameboy advance, Saturn, Genesis, and for higher end phones N64, DS, Playstation, with PS2 comming. Thats millions of games I have access too. Don't tout its illegal. Illegal or not its still a benefit of android.
Sorry I don't watch movies on my 3.5 inch screen not worth it. Can't wait to get the transformer and watch it on the real web browser though.
eXan
Sep 26, 01:32 AM
Play WoW and CoD...... :confused:
And UT2007 and Q4 and render video. All at the same time :confused:
Do we need that?
And UT2007 and Q4 and render video. All at the same time :confused:
Do we need that?
Andronicus
Apr 28, 12:57 PM
It doesn't matter what you think. It only matters what people are buying. Many are buying iPads for browsing/facebook/farmville instead of another HP or Dell laptop.
And a Mac or Dell PC needs a computer to be usable. Several of them. There's a computer (maybe two) inside the disk drive that it boots from, the mouse, and any access points or routers that it uses to connect to the net. Etc.
Well it doesn't matter what you think either then! :p
And that's a stupid argument, I'm pretty sure 99% of people on this forum understood what I meant when I said, a computer shouldn't need a computer to be usable. :rolleyes:
And a Mac or Dell PC needs a computer to be usable. Several of them. There's a computer (maybe two) inside the disk drive that it boots from, the mouse, and any access points or routers that it uses to connect to the net. Etc.
Well it doesn't matter what you think either then! :p
And that's a stupid argument, I'm pretty sure 99% of people on this forum understood what I meant when I said, a computer shouldn't need a computer to be usable. :rolleyes:
D4F
Apr 28, 08:36 AM
We are currently witnessing the melding of the two, with the mobile side emerging as the favoured platform.
Yes, you'll see content creation on tablet and pad devices. It's inevitable as they get more powerful and easier to use.
I agree but they will never match real desktops. Technology advances. Something you can do today let's say in 2 hours you will do in 1 next year on new equipement. Thing is that next year you will ramp up the quality of the final product still getting same 2 hour work period. It's like that for ages and will never stop :)
Yes, you'll see content creation on tablet and pad devices. It's inevitable as they get more powerful and easier to use.
I agree but they will never match real desktops. Technology advances. Something you can do today let's say in 2 hours you will do in 1 next year on new equipement. Thing is that next year you will ramp up the quality of the final product still getting same 2 hour work period. It's like that for ages and will never stop :)
ezekielrage_99
Aug 30, 07:29 AM
Thank God Apple users just amount 3% -or something like that- in the computer industry (forget about the ipod)...
If everybody thought like most people in this board, the world would be a more scarier (if possible) place to live in...
I wonder if Dell rated highly because of that battery thing :confused:
If everybody thought like most people in this board, the world would be a more scarier (if possible) place to live in...
I wonder if Dell rated highly because of that battery thing :confused:
edifyingGerbil
Apr 22, 08:26 PM
There is no reason to imagine that god does exist, one doesn't need to provide a reason for not believing in god.
Can you provide me an argument for why you don't believe in witches or Santa?
Yes, because witches and santa exist in space and time, God does not so rules which apply to people who live in space and time do not apply to God. It's physically impossible for santa to exist. Witches do exist, the Romanian parliament recently passed a law which said witches must pay taxes.
That's why God knows what's going to happen in the future but we still have free-will, because if you exist outside of time you can see everything that's going to happen or has happened because it's already happened.
Can you provide me an argument for why you don't believe in witches or Santa?
Yes, because witches and santa exist in space and time, God does not so rules which apply to people who live in space and time do not apply to God. It's physically impossible for santa to exist. Witches do exist, the Romanian parliament recently passed a law which said witches must pay taxes.
That's why God knows what's going to happen in the future but we still have free-will, because if you exist outside of time you can see everything that's going to happen or has happened because it's already happened.
r1ch4rd
Apr 22, 11:02 PM
Dawkins might. As I said before, most atheists are agnostic atheists.
I think the definition is a bit tricky to nail down. I don't think that theists know that there is a God. They just believe that there is. I think my belief is just as strong as that. They may argue otherwise.
I think the definition is a bit tricky to nail down. I don't think that theists know that there is a God. They just believe that there is. I think my belief is just as strong as that. They may argue otherwise.
Chris here
Sep 29, 07:23 AM
No.
Oh. Great. Cool answer.
Oh. Great. Cool answer.
Gelfin
Mar 24, 11:59 PM
Subtract the individuals affiliated with gangs and the mentally unstable and we're staring at a long list of homosexuals murdered by "mainstream" individuals, many of whom attended church on a regular basis and were in fact catholic. That their religious affiliations are not immediately telegraphed is not evidence of absence, but rather of the fact that 76% of the population self-identifies as Christian.
To stretch my own analogy, it also ignores that the men who put on white hoods and terrorized black people were not "mainstream" white people either, but they were nevertheless acting on the attitudes held by "mainstream" white people. They were radical, but saw themselves as the ones with the strength of will to enforce the true will of the "mainstream." It's all very well to believe that the darkies should keep their place, but somebody's got to do the work of keeping them there when they step out of line.
However, I will return to what I touched on before: the Catholic Church (and Christian churches generally in the United States) currently have no need for terrorist thugs. They have great political influence and have convinced a significant plurality (seemingly no longer a majority, I am gratified to point out) that they are entitled to subjugate others bloodlessly and anonymously through the democratic process.
At least this is so until the courts clearly state once and for all that this is incompatible with our law and our society. Incidentally, that's also when the thugs will really come out, and you watch how many of them claim to be doing the Lord's work.
To stretch my own analogy, it also ignores that the men who put on white hoods and terrorized black people were not "mainstream" white people either, but they were nevertheless acting on the attitudes held by "mainstream" white people. They were radical, but saw themselves as the ones with the strength of will to enforce the true will of the "mainstream." It's all very well to believe that the darkies should keep their place, but somebody's got to do the work of keeping them there when they step out of line.
However, I will return to what I touched on before: the Catholic Church (and Christian churches generally in the United States) currently have no need for terrorist thugs. They have great political influence and have convinced a significant plurality (seemingly no longer a majority, I am gratified to point out) that they are entitled to subjugate others bloodlessly and anonymously through the democratic process.
At least this is so until the courts clearly state once and for all that this is incompatible with our law and our society. Incidentally, that's also when the thugs will really come out, and you watch how many of them claim to be doing the Lord's work.
Mord
Jul 12, 01:19 PM
the g5 numbers are typical, conroe nomubers are max.
HyperX13
Apr 15, 12:57 PM
I have read this a few times now and I still do not get your point.
Being gay = being promiscuous?
Or is it just a very poor attempt at sarcasm?
Bad, bad taste�
promiscuous or not, it is me. I want rights based on my sexual promiscuity. Why is it different? That is who I am.
Being gay = being promiscuous?
Or is it just a very poor attempt at sarcasm?
Bad, bad taste�
promiscuous or not, it is me. I want rights based on my sexual promiscuity. Why is it different? That is who I am.
takao
Mar 15, 07:02 AM
the german government seems to have decided to put the plans for prolonging the life of it's current nuclearplants on hold for 3 months to evaluate the safety, risks and if the switch away from nuclear can't be accelerated (germany already consideres nuclear power only as a 'bridge technology' until renewable power forms can take over)
and as a direct consequence they have decided to shut off all reactors built prior to 1981: all in all seven nuclear reactors remain shut down for the next 3 months with a complete maximum nuclear output of 7000 MW
an obvious ploy IMHO to win the upcoming local elections in Baden-W�rtenberg which are in danger of being lost because of the pro-nuclear stance of the CDU-FDP coalition
the question which comes up though is: if 7 nuclear plants can easily taken off the grid for 3 months without consequences to electricity supply... why exactly are they deemed so important ?
and as a direct consequence they have decided to shut off all reactors built prior to 1981: all in all seven nuclear reactors remain shut down for the next 3 months with a complete maximum nuclear output of 7000 MW
an obvious ploy IMHO to win the upcoming local elections in Baden-W�rtenberg which are in danger of being lost because of the pro-nuclear stance of the CDU-FDP coalition
the question which comes up though is: if 7 nuclear plants can easily taken off the grid for 3 months without consequences to electricity supply... why exactly are they deemed so important ?
slu
Oct 7, 03:51 PM
All I have to say is EAT IT MICROSOFT! Windows Mobile SUCKS lol :D :p
I love seeing the way things are going for Microsoft. It is like watching a giant passing out about to SLAM and hit the ground collapsed. Always too little too late! :rolleyes:
I hope my sarcasm meter is broken.
If it is not, comments like this are exactly what is wrong with this forum.
What does Microsoft has to do with topic?
I love seeing the way things are going for Microsoft. It is like watching a giant passing out about to SLAM and hit the ground collapsed. Always too little too late! :rolleyes:
I hope my sarcasm meter is broken.
If it is not, comments like this are exactly what is wrong with this forum.
What does Microsoft has to do with topic?
edifyingGerbil
Apr 24, 01:53 PM
As in he hopes since you have the view of people should not infringe on your rights, that you should hopefully not infringe on others....such by opposing gay marriage
Oh, that wasn't very clear, or maybe I'm being obtuse lol
I don't see how gay people marrying would infringe any of my rights.
I value the freedom of expression and speech a lot.
Oh, that wasn't very clear, or maybe I'm being obtuse lol
I don't see how gay people marrying would infringe any of my rights.
I value the freedom of expression and speech a lot.
shawnce
Jul 12, 05:07 PM
So, aside from the ability to do multiple processing, what advantages does Woodcrest have that make it mandatory to go in the pro-line? How much "faster" is it going to be over the Conroe? It's my understanding that they are identical in that respect.
All of the Core / Core 2 based processors support SMP (they have two cores after all) but only the Xeon class chips and related chipset supports the ability to have more then a single CPU socket.
All of the Core / Core 2 based processors support SMP (they have two cores after all) but only the Xeon class chips and related chipset supports the ability to have more then a single CPU socket.
megadon
Nov 10, 03:40 PM
Or because it's an interesting debate that engages many minds in varying aspects of the possibilities.
Or maybe you're just incapable of recognising the fact that Mac users, on average, are smarter than PC users.
And by smarter, I mean we're more enquiring. We also tend not to write using lower case letters at the beginning of sentences, and use poor grammar. Why does that matter?, you might ask. Well, for a start, it's incorrect. But it's also ignorant and rude and immature.
So, when we debate, for five minutes or for a few days, maybe the smart thing to do is pay attention. The experience may just fill in the obvious gaps in your education.
thanks for proving me right. Facts are facts. 2 +2 = 4, there is no debate about it. It's like saying apple dominates the os market share compared to msft.
Or maybe you're just incapable of recognising the fact that Mac users, on average, are smarter than PC users.
And by smarter, I mean we're more enquiring. We also tend not to write using lower case letters at the beginning of sentences, and use poor grammar. Why does that matter?, you might ask. Well, for a start, it's incorrect. But it's also ignorant and rude and immature.
So, when we debate, for five minutes or for a few days, maybe the smart thing to do is pay attention. The experience may just fill in the obvious gaps in your education.
thanks for proving me right. Facts are facts. 2 +2 = 4, there is no debate about it. It's like saying apple dominates the os market share compared to msft.
OllyW
Mar 13, 07:26 AM
While the thread seems to be focused on the crisis at the nuclear power station, pictures are emerging showing the devastation left behind by the tsunami...
http://boingboing.net/img/Natori%20Yagawahama%20Before-After.JPG
http://boingboing.net/img/Natori%20Yagawahama%20Before-After.JPG
