Glen Quagmire
Aug 23, 03:32 PM
This will likely suck, because the interconnect Intel is using is just too damn slow. Putting four cores in the same package will just make the situation worse, because a lot of applications are significantly limited by memory performance.
The Woodcrest processors have been put through their paces pretty well on the supercomputing lists, and their Achille's heal is the memory subsystem. Current generation AMD Opterons still clearly outscale Woodcrest in real-world memory bandwidth with only two cores. Unless Intel pulls a rabbit out of their hat with their memory architecture issues when the quad core is released, AMDs quad core is going to embarrass them because of the memory bottleneck. And AMD is already starting to work on upgrading their already markedly superior memory architecture.
In two years' time, Intel will release Nehalem its next micro-architecture - to replace Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest. It is supposed to ditch the FSB in favour of Intel's own interconnect, named CSI. Two years after Nehalem will come another micro-architecture.
In some respects, I'm quite happy to have ordered a Woodcrest Mac Pro, especially if the slow FSB does slow things down when Woodcrest's successor is released. If the Mac Pro can last me three or four years, I'll be in time for the post-Nehalem generation, which should be fairly spectacular.
The Woodcrest processors have been put through their paces pretty well on the supercomputing lists, and their Achille's heal is the memory subsystem. Current generation AMD Opterons still clearly outscale Woodcrest in real-world memory bandwidth with only two cores. Unless Intel pulls a rabbit out of their hat with their memory architecture issues when the quad core is released, AMDs quad core is going to embarrass them because of the memory bottleneck. And AMD is already starting to work on upgrading their already markedly superior memory architecture.
In two years' time, Intel will release Nehalem its next micro-architecture - to replace Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest. It is supposed to ditch the FSB in favour of Intel's own interconnect, named CSI. Two years after Nehalem will come another micro-architecture.
In some respects, I'm quite happy to have ordered a Woodcrest Mac Pro, especially if the slow FSB does slow things down when Woodcrest's successor is released. If the Mac Pro can last me three or four years, I'll be in time for the post-Nehalem generation, which should be fairly spectacular.
NoNameBrand
Jul 21, 08:26 AM
yeah, what he said. Apple does not have to distinguish powermacs from servers with processor speeds. People (businesses) who need servers are not going to buy powermacs to do the job even if they are a little bit faster or cheaper; they are going to buy real rack-mounted servers.
Now you're not thinking like a competitive company that needs to continue to make money.
Sun is on the ropes and Apple now has a chance to soar in and take a lot of business from them.
How does Apple releasing an eight-way workstation prevent them from competing with Sun in the server market, again? I must have missed that part.
Now you're not thinking like a competitive company that needs to continue to make money.
Sun is on the ropes and Apple now has a chance to soar in and take a lot of business from them.
How does Apple releasing an eight-way workstation prevent them from competing with Sun in the server market, again? I must have missed that part.
littleman23408
Dec 3, 03:03 PM
Do you get a prize car for finishing a series in Aspec races with all gold? Like I just need to finish one more race, but I can't find a used car to get into it. It's the first series of races, beginner I am assuming.
MacinDoc
Sep 19, 02:08 AM
there's no reason not to switch to Core 2 Duo as they sell for the same price as Core Duo and are drop in replacement.. the only possible reason for the delay is supply shortage.. it's not unusual to see PC vendors announce new processors even though they are unable to ship them at that time, but at the same time they keep options for the older model, which ships instantly.. Apple thinks differently, they will announce the update when they're ready to ship and starting that day they cease selling the older models.. I think thats fair.. the only difference is that they don't make announcements several weeks in advance..
Apple has no reason not to follow Intel's speed bumps, because on each speed bump the prices shifts towards the lower models, in other words Intel keeps the prices the same but speed bumps at every level.. if Apple does not update, they're keeping extra money in their pockets..
as for the updates, I'm curious wheter it's gonna be just a processor switch or wheter they will also move from ATi to nVidia as they did in iMacs.. ATi is now owned by AMD and maybe somehow Apple bets more on nVidia because of using Intel processors only.. also I don't expect MXM slots for video cards for the same reason there's no processor socket in MBP, they ough to keep this as tight as possible..
Exactly.
What is wrong with you people? Meroms in other brands of laptops haven't, or are only *just* starting to ship, and you people wail that Apple is doomed, when in the worst case scenario, they'll be a few days behind Dell. If they don't ship by next month, then sure, complain, but really, most of those who moan that Apple is "OMG SO OUTDATED MEROM MBPS SHOULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED 2 MONTHS AGO!!!" are out of touch with reality.
Amen!
Apple has no reason not to follow Intel's speed bumps, because on each speed bump the prices shifts towards the lower models, in other words Intel keeps the prices the same but speed bumps at every level.. if Apple does not update, they're keeping extra money in their pockets..
as for the updates, I'm curious wheter it's gonna be just a processor switch or wheter they will also move from ATi to nVidia as they did in iMacs.. ATi is now owned by AMD and maybe somehow Apple bets more on nVidia because of using Intel processors only.. also I don't expect MXM slots for video cards for the same reason there's no processor socket in MBP, they ough to keep this as tight as possible..
Exactly.
What is wrong with you people? Meroms in other brands of laptops haven't, or are only *just* starting to ship, and you people wail that Apple is doomed, when in the worst case scenario, they'll be a few days behind Dell. If they don't ship by next month, then sure, complain, but really, most of those who moan that Apple is "OMG SO OUTDATED MEROM MBPS SHOULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED 2 MONTHS AGO!!!" are out of touch with reality.
Amen!
AlligatorBloodz
Apr 8, 02:23 AM
Well right now I'm looking at both their online stores. Both sites have the Apple TV @ $99, so... uh.. Lol.
Wait ... I don't think I mentioned Best Buy paying customers to buy Apple products. I don't fully understand your post :/
What don't you get. Best buy gets the ATV2 from apple for $90, then sells it for $99. The same price apple sells it for. Best buy makes $10 or less on every atv2 they sell.
Also my point about the student discount was it wouldn't make sense for best buy to honor it if they lost money. It would make more sense not to sell it.
Wait ... I don't think I mentioned Best Buy paying customers to buy Apple products. I don't fully understand your post :/
What don't you get. Best buy gets the ATV2 from apple for $90, then sells it for $99. The same price apple sells it for. Best buy makes $10 or less on every atv2 they sell.
Also my point about the student discount was it wouldn't make sense for best buy to honor it if they lost money. It would make more sense not to sell it.
ghostlines
Apr 25, 02:26 PM
Maybe I have a bit of tunnel vision but is simply storing location data of customers on THEIR own machines so wrong? I heard in some comments that this info could be used for caching purposes.
If it's illegal to store location data unknowingly on my own machine then Apple has lost this case already. But I think not. I say prove that Apple did upload and use this location info. Otherwise Apple can simply claim they used it for caching or for a secret location based app they were planning on releasing for people to opt into.(:hint: for Apple's lawyers)
If Apple loses this then I hope lawsuits follow for similar companies that also do such things. When you're on the top people like to bash for the smallest of things.
If it's illegal to store location data unknowingly on my own machine then Apple has lost this case already. But I think not. I say prove that Apple did upload and use this location info. Otherwise Apple can simply claim they used it for caching or for a secret location based app they were planning on releasing for people to opt into.(:hint: for Apple's lawyers)
If Apple loses this then I hope lawsuits follow for similar companies that also do such things. When you're on the top people like to bash for the smallest of things.
daneoni
Aug 25, 03:52 PM
Another person who can never be satisfied.:rolleyes:
What is that even supposed to mean?
What is that even supposed to mean?
Lollypop
Jul 20, 08:12 AM
seems the tragic days of the P4 are gone for intel, good for us! :p With all the high end stuff from intel thats apparently going into the mac im a bit worried about the price of the systems though!
ArchaicRevival
Apr 25, 03:44 PM
Ha. They got nothing on Apple's lawyers lol
savar
Sep 13, 02:35 PM
NOT TRUE....The Quad core G5 people are in an uproar because Logic Pro only uses 2 cores on the G5....they updated Logic Pro so it uses 4 cores, but the G5 Quad still only uses 2 cores....there are also photoshop actions that are NOT multi core aware so will only run on one core.....Hopefully 10.5 will make all this irrelevant.
You totally missed my point. Even if an application uses only one thread at all times, that application is still a separate process from all of the other processes you have running. At any given time you'll have at least 30 something processes, even when no user-land applications are running. OS X will spread out those processes to try to utilize all the cores as much as possible.
In reality, there are probably not too many non-Apple applications which routinely use 8 threads or more. In the near future I expect all applications to use at least 2-3 threads, even the most simple ones.
You totally missed my point. Even if an application uses only one thread at all times, that application is still a separate process from all of the other processes you have running. At any given time you'll have at least 30 something processes, even when no user-land applications are running. OS X will spread out those processes to try to utilize all the cores as much as possible.
In reality, there are probably not too many non-Apple applications which routinely use 8 threads or more. In the near future I expect all applications to use at least 2-3 threads, even the most simple ones.
fluidinclusion
Aug 27, 06:58 PM
hmmm... the funny part is that it's been done to death.* that's the bit.* i guess you don't see it as funny.* ever heard of a reoccuring joke with a little aphormism mixed in?
All your Powerbook G5's are belong to us
All your Powerbook G5's are belong to us
shartypants
Mar 22, 03:35 PM
copy cats. Same price for a piece of crap, no thanks.
illegalprelude
Aug 26, 12:10 AM
I guess I am lucky, but I haven't had problems through all the Macs I have bought. It may be because I haven't bought rev A of any product.
The eMac was 2nd gen. No problems.
The iBook was 2nd to last gen. No problems.
And the Intel Mac mini is just an internals change. We'll wait and see.
If my Intel mini conks out unexpectedly, I will give Apple one more chance, because they haven't worked with Intel hardware extensively like PPC hardware.
At the same time, there is a price to pay for lower prices. Would you be willing to pay premiums for quality? I'm glad Apples are cheaper, but not glad about the downturn in quality. I think I would pay a bit more for quality, myself.
were not paying premium? :confused:
The eMac was 2nd gen. No problems.
The iBook was 2nd to last gen. No problems.
And the Intel Mac mini is just an internals change. We'll wait and see.
If my Intel mini conks out unexpectedly, I will give Apple one more chance, because they haven't worked with Intel hardware extensively like PPC hardware.
At the same time, there is a price to pay for lower prices. Would you be willing to pay premiums for quality? I'm glad Apples are cheaper, but not glad about the downturn in quality. I think I would pay a bit more for quality, myself.
were not paying premium? :confused:
Hellhammer
Apr 9, 01:29 AM
TDP != Max power draw
It's not. See my earlier post in this thread. Maximum power dissipation is usually 20-30% more.
It's not. See my earlier post in this thread. Maximum power dissipation is usually 20-30% more.
RedTomato
Aug 11, 12:28 PM
My bets are that it will be either with Nokia or with HTC.
Nokia make the best phone interfaces in the world, which is a very Apple-like thing to do. They're also very experienced at phone hardware desigh and integrating it smoothly with the interface.
HTC are a taiwan company that design and make the best phone hardware in the world, and then sell them to companies like O2, T-Mobile etc to put their brand on. Most HTC-built phones run Windows Mobile, which Apple may be interested in replaceing with OSX Mobile...
I can quite easily see Apple commisisoning HTC to make a Apple phone, these people are simply the best at hardware phone design and manufacture.
Someone suggested Blackberry, but Blackberry is more geared to corporate use - not a very Apple-like sector - and also are quite heavily dependent on having access to a Windows server to get the most out of your phone.
Overall, I feel it will be HTC and OSX Mobile...
Nokia make the best phone interfaces in the world, which is a very Apple-like thing to do. They're also very experienced at phone hardware desigh and integrating it smoothly with the interface.
HTC are a taiwan company that design and make the best phone hardware in the world, and then sell them to companies like O2, T-Mobile etc to put their brand on. Most HTC-built phones run Windows Mobile, which Apple may be interested in replaceing with OSX Mobile...
I can quite easily see Apple commisisoning HTC to make a Apple phone, these people are simply the best at hardware phone design and manufacture.
Someone suggested Blackberry, but Blackberry is more geared to corporate use - not a very Apple-like sector - and also are quite heavily dependent on having access to a Windows server to get the most out of your phone.
Overall, I feel it will be HTC and OSX Mobile...
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Macnoviz
Jul 20, 05:07 PM
Let's hope the "opposite of Hyperthreading" will come along (Leopard feature???).. So, instead of a "emulating" a Dual Core / CPU config (like on later Pentium 4's), emulate a Single CPU on multiple cores. :cool:
Then, you get 8 * 3 GHz = 1 * 24 GHz...!!!
I think Reverse Hyperthreading will have to be processor-bound, like Hyperthreading. Intel has its mitosis project, so let's hope that works out well!
Then, you get 8 * 3 GHz = 1 * 24 GHz...!!!
I think Reverse Hyperthreading will have to be processor-bound, like Hyperthreading. Intel has its mitosis project, so let's hope that works out well!
inhrntlyunstabl
Apr 27, 10:05 AM
And once again people give Apple a pass for something that is clearly an issue.
You mean to tell me that Apple...this sounds like something Google would do, not Apple.
revelated, beware! Apple is closing in on you with their black helicopters and vans to take you prisoner for mind control experiments.
OR
If they did this on purpose, maybe they wanted to know why so many people complain about AT&T in certain parts of SF. Or maybe they wanted to know how many users access Internet via all the Starbucks in the world? Maybe they wanted to direct ads at you based upon your location.
All of the above are already being done to you via many other avenues, e.g. your frequent buyer cards, ATMs, CCs, etc.
BUT
If you want to believe there is some BIGGER MYSTERIOUS PURPOSE in mind for them to do this, you go right on.
LOOK OUT BEHIND YOU - WAS THAT A BLACK UNMARKED VAN!!!! :D
You mean to tell me that Apple...this sounds like something Google would do, not Apple.
revelated, beware! Apple is closing in on you with their black helicopters and vans to take you prisoner for mind control experiments.
OR
If they did this on purpose, maybe they wanted to know why so many people complain about AT&T in certain parts of SF. Or maybe they wanted to know how many users access Internet via all the Starbucks in the world? Maybe they wanted to direct ads at you based upon your location.
All of the above are already being done to you via many other avenues, e.g. your frequent buyer cards, ATMs, CCs, etc.
BUT
If you want to believe there is some BIGGER MYSTERIOUS PURPOSE in mind for them to do this, you go right on.
LOOK OUT BEHIND YOU - WAS THAT A BLACK UNMARKED VAN!!!! :D
hulugu
Mar 22, 12:05 AM
It's hard to argue against sysiphus's summary. The depressing corollary to that is, I don't see any realistically electable candidates on the horizon who can improve on Obama. Presidents have become more alike over time. Perhaps that is because the US is so out of step with the rest of the world that all presidents find themselves involved in similar international adventures.
It will be interesting to see how Obama handles the next phase of the the situation, as he has promised to "tone down" US military involvement in Libya. Unlike Iraq, there is an opposition movement in-country and there is no invasion. So while I'm disappointed that we are involved in yet another conflict in the middle east, this one stands a better chance of aiding a legitimate opposition movement in removing a dictator rather than creating another tragic, expensive mess.
I agree. The Democrats will, of course, push Obama for a second-term and thus our opposition candidates are all GOP, none of whom are serious contenders for improving our present situation.
If I read the Obama administration correctly, the US involvement will be very limited and while "advisors" are certainly on the ground�I be amazed if there weren't forward-air controllers and Green Berets in Libya�the US's role will remain very limited. Like the Gulf War, we will let our Arab League allies be the first ones across the border, and give the security operations to the French and British.
It will be interesting to see how Obama handles the next phase of the the situation, as he has promised to "tone down" US military involvement in Libya. Unlike Iraq, there is an opposition movement in-country and there is no invasion. So while I'm disappointed that we are involved in yet another conflict in the middle east, this one stands a better chance of aiding a legitimate opposition movement in removing a dictator rather than creating another tragic, expensive mess.
I agree. The Democrats will, of course, push Obama for a second-term and thus our opposition candidates are all GOP, none of whom are serious contenders for improving our present situation.
If I read the Obama administration correctly, the US involvement will be very limited and while "advisors" are certainly on the ground�I be amazed if there weren't forward-air controllers and Green Berets in Libya�the US's role will remain very limited. Like the Gulf War, we will let our Arab League allies be the first ones across the border, and give the security operations to the French and British.
fox10078
Apr 5, 10:47 PM
Compressor and DVDSP need help. I use both of them daily and my customer love that I shoot HD, now they want it delivered that way.
Tell a bride that just dropped $5k on her wedding video that she'll be getting it via digital download.
Please explain
A) Whats wrong with 3rd party blu-ray burning?
B) How in the hell are you getting paid 5k if you need Final Cut or anything associated to burn blu-ray
Tell a bride that just dropped $5k on her wedding video that she'll be getting it via digital download.
Please explain
A) Whats wrong with 3rd party blu-ray burning?
B) How in the hell are you getting paid 5k if you need Final Cut or anything associated to burn blu-ray
wpotere
Apr 28, 06:19 PM
Look...I'll be the first to admit..there are some wacko Christians out there..like this dude from florida who burned the Quran..i mean wth was he thinking? but we're not all wacko as alot of you suggest... the posts a lot of people on here make, lump ALL of us together. And thats just not cool...
Same goes for conservatives and tea party members...Yes a lot of tea party members are quite radical. But not ALL of them you can probably safely say 99% of racists would consider themselves tea party..but that doesn’t mean everyone in the tea party is racist...
Consider this please before any of you go lumping all of a particular group into one derogatory name..
The problem is that they are the ones that are currently speaking out. You are the exception to the rule in this case and are trying to set it straight. I have no problems with Christians in general but the fanatics are the ones that are making the noise currently and rather than folks like you standing up and saying something you guys let it happen. IMHO, people are people. Believe in what you want but don't try to force it on me and if you don't like what someone is doing simply ignore it.
Lastly, if you have leaders that are racist, that is what your group will be labeled as. If you don't like the label, step up and be the change in your group!
Same goes for conservatives and tea party members...Yes a lot of tea party members are quite radical. But not ALL of them you can probably safely say 99% of racists would consider themselves tea party..but that doesn’t mean everyone in the tea party is racist...
Consider this please before any of you go lumping all of a particular group into one derogatory name..
The problem is that they are the ones that are currently speaking out. You are the exception to the rule in this case and are trying to set it straight. I have no problems with Christians in general but the fanatics are the ones that are making the noise currently and rather than folks like you standing up and saying something you guys let it happen. IMHO, people are people. Believe in what you want but don't try to force it on me and if you don't like what someone is doing simply ignore it.
Lastly, if you have leaders that are racist, that is what your group will be labeled as. If you don't like the label, step up and be the change in your group!
Joe2000
Aug 6, 06:08 AM
What about TV Show downloads in the UK? Pleeeeaaaase!!! :rolleyes:
Looking foward to these Mac Pros though, my Dad is definatley going to buy one. :D
Thanks, Joe.
Looking foward to these Mac Pros though, my Dad is definatley going to buy one. :D
Thanks, Joe.
samcraig
Apr 27, 10:28 AM
Don't you just love it? Apple identifies an potential issue, and does something to remedy it, and they get yelled at for doing so. If they do nothing, they get yelled at for doing nothing.
Catch 22.
Apple identified it? No. Check your history. It was brought TO Apple's attention over a year ago.
It was again brought TO Apple's attention via various reports and articles.
THEN Apple looked into the matter.
I commend Apple for taking action (now).
But let's not rewrite history, shall we?
Catch 22.
Apple identified it? No. Check your history. It was brought TO Apple's attention over a year ago.
It was again brought TO Apple's attention via various reports and articles.
THEN Apple looked into the matter.
I commend Apple for taking action (now).
But let's not rewrite history, shall we?
NAG
Apr 27, 08:50 AM
And here I thought that data wasn't sent to Apple? At least they encrypted it so that you can't tell what actually is sent.
Edit:
But really, they are doing the right thing by truncating the size, removing it from files being backuped, and encrypting the file.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the wasn't sent argument was short for wasn't sent to Apple to track you personally. You're always sending out some sort of location data whether it be your IP or the wifi data. This was announced as a feature back when they first showed of location tracking on the iPhone (so you can't say it was secret). I guess the assumption was that people would remember context of what was said before. The context was that we knew about the anonymous wifi data and people were claiming location database on the phone was being used by Apple to track people personally (the 3rd party local access as a reasonable concern although a bit unlikely). I guess we should have been more explicit in and hoped people try to understand context instead of only becoming irrationally angry at the words "location". Oh well.
Oh, and I like how people are claiming the non-encryption was said by Apple to be a bug and then acting incredulous. Yeah, that tends to happen when you make something up. The only thing that was a bug was the cache not getting culled over time or deleted completely when location services is off. Encryption is a new feature (that arguably should have been there to start) and the file being backed up was probably an oversight. I have no idea how Apple handles their audits but they should probably look into it since they messed up here and only addressed it after we got yet another "-gate" in the media. (Do they even have a fence at this point or is it just a bunch of gates? Maybe they should make a "-gate" for that.) Informing people is, of course, good. However hysterics and hyperbole don't really do a very good job of that.
Edit:
But really, they are doing the right thing by truncating the size, removing it from files being backuped, and encrypting the file.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the wasn't sent argument was short for wasn't sent to Apple to track you personally. You're always sending out some sort of location data whether it be your IP or the wifi data. This was announced as a feature back when they first showed of location tracking on the iPhone (so you can't say it was secret). I guess the assumption was that people would remember context of what was said before. The context was that we knew about the anonymous wifi data and people were claiming location database on the phone was being used by Apple to track people personally (the 3rd party local access as a reasonable concern although a bit unlikely). I guess we should have been more explicit in and hoped people try to understand context instead of only becoming irrationally angry at the words "location". Oh well.
Oh, and I like how people are claiming the non-encryption was said by Apple to be a bug and then acting incredulous. Yeah, that tends to happen when you make something up. The only thing that was a bug was the cache not getting culled over time or deleted completely when location services is off. Encryption is a new feature (that arguably should have been there to start) and the file being backed up was probably an oversight. I have no idea how Apple handles their audits but they should probably look into it since they messed up here and only addressed it after we got yet another "-gate" in the media. (Do they even have a fence at this point or is it just a bunch of gates? Maybe they should make a "-gate" for that.) Informing people is, of course, good. However hysterics and hyperbole don't really do a very good job of that.
braddouglass
Apr 6, 12:34 PM
I've always hated the MBA until this most recent update. FLASH drives are amazing. and if they can finally update the processor to i5 they will have my money! those complaining about graphics.. why are you buying 13in mac for gaming?? buy a MBP so you can see what you're doing. I want mine for general usage and music editing/writing. Sounds like a beautiful product to me. :)
